Woman

[radegund]

[Cross-posted to radegund and motherism]

When I was growing up (Ireland, 1970s and 1980s), everyone identified adults to children as "man" or "lady". (I still remember the slightly heady feeling the first time a mother said "mind the lady" to her child when referring to me; I would have been in my mid-teens.) I feel a bit squirmy about the imbalance of that, so I'm trying not to do it. Oisín mainly hears "man", "woman" and (most often) "person" from me. Sometimes, when I'm speaking in the hearing of someone who looks as if she'd be uncomfortable with "woman", I can get flustered, forget all about "person" and find myself mumbling "lady". It's not that I'm trying to prevent him from learning the word - there's an absurd goal, if ever there was one! - but it's not part of my normal speech, and I suppose I don't want to normalise it in contexts where I wouldn't use "gentleman".

Oisín frequently raises eyebrows when he says "woman". This afternoon at the park, for instance, I was sitting on the bench beside the mother of a small child whose father was helping her on the slide, and Oisín came over, pointed at me and said "Mama", then pointed at this woman and said "woman?" - plainly asking to be introduced. I caught her eye, and she looked really surprised. Not shocked or cross, but as if she'd never heard a toddler say "woman" before. I think it's possible that she hadn't.

A more striking example was at the till in a DIY chain a few weeks ago, when I asked Oisín to give the money to "the person behind the counter", and he scrutinised her and proudly announced "woman!" (he's only recently begun consistently reading gender clues correctly). I said something like "yes, to the woman", and she laughed, took the money from him (kindly), and then laughed and muttered "I am not!" as she put it in the till. From context, I'm pretty sure she meant to dissociate herself from the label "woman", most likely in favour of "girl", with a side order of "what weirdo freak doesn't teach her son to say LADY?". Meanwhile, on the other side of the counter, I'm thinking, "what weirdo freak explicitly refutes a neutral gender label as applied by a one-year old?".

I don't have a particularly pointy point to make here. But I'm curious: what gender labels do you use with young children?

Comments

[sshi.livejournal.com]

I dunno, not being around small children much, but I managed to commit the cardinal mistake yesterday of calling a small child of undetermined gender a he, when it was actually a she. Possibly the fact that she had made a break out the door in work and was rapidly climbing the stone stairs may have contributed, but man, was I embarrassed. Also, see above on not being around small children much.

[ailbhe]

Linnea uses Lady and Woman so I assume I use both. And Man. And People, and Person. And Boy and Girl. And Childrens.

[gothwalk.livejournal.com]

what weirdo freak explicitly refutes a neutral gender label as applied by a one-year old?

I suspect that, to her, the label is not neutral. There's a definite (and slightly odd) perception in use of language in Ireland that the transition from "boy" to "man" is something intensely desirable, and the one from "girl" to "woman" something to be held off as long as possible. Actually, it's not just Ireland, and not just modern - the use of plummy phrases like "old girl" has been around in English since late Victorian times.

I've no experience of small kids worth speaking of, but I know that to parents of children that I encounter on public transport, or when I worked in craft fair and roadside stalls, I've been "the nice man" since I was about 16. These days, with beard and hat, I'm often the object of considerable fascination, particularly for Oriental and Middle Eastern kids.

[merryhouse.livejournal.com]

oh lord... I have *exactly* the same problem. (UK, 70s and 80s)

I try not to say lady (in situations where I would not equivalently say gentleman), which tends to mean I fudge the issue somewhat. I have been thinking recently that I ought to come right out with "woman" on more occasions.

Perhaps I will soften the blow by adding the qualifier "nice" - even though that's another word I try not to use much ;-)

[micheinnz.livejournal.com]

I mostly use "person", but occasionally "man" or "woman" as the occasion arises.